Sanguinian Succession Discussion(Alt. Heresy)[Updated]

For Warhammer fiction not strictly from either universe.

Sanguinian Succession Discussion(Alt. Heresy)[Updated]

Postby zolohunter » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:56 am

Before I beginning talking about this "little", if one would called it that, project. If this is the wrong place to have this topic, then please moving it to the correct forum. Thanks! :D

I moved this over from the B&C Forums since not much people are responding to it over there. I am truly hoping to get some views and opinions on the matter. This is a Heresy like that of B&C's Dornain Heresy. However, instead of Dorn as the Arch-Betrayer, it is Sangy.

I also want this to be more, if not a bit more, grimdark than the Canon universe.

Without further ado, Let this project beginning.

Blood Angels—Renegades
Emperor’s Children—Loyal
Iron Hands—Unknown Alliance
Iron Warrior—Chaos (Slannesh)
Luna Wolves—Loyal
Word Bearers—Civil War(half Chaos/half Loyal)
Imperial Fists—Renegades
Night Lords—Unknown Alliance
Raven Guards—Renegades
Death Guards—
Alpha Legion—Unknown Alliance
Thousand Sons—Unknown Alliance
Dark Angels— Civil War(half Renegade/half Loyal)
White Scars—Chaos (Tzeentch)
Space Wolves—Renegade

Here is what I came up with as the beginning or the prologue to it all.

I run from all the terrible things that’s to come and from the things that came already. The Emperor, glory be to his soul, has die and with it the astronomicon. However before the Golden Throne collapse upon itself, the Webway Portal opened up for a split minute just enough for me to escape from Holy Terra, glory be to the cradle of humanity of what it was and has been. As I stepped through, it felt like someone or something continues to stare at me from the very shadows of the Webways. It, like the Warp, can conjure up images of past, present and the future even false reality. This might be how the Xenos, Eldars, got their gifts for foresight. I might have known why the Emperor, again glory be to his soul, would want to conceal this matter from his sons as well as the Imperium proper. I, may in fact, be the last to escape from that hell. The lost Primarchs were no mere accidents but instead purposeful. For what, we may never know for the past is bound to repeat itself again.

The webways shows me visions of three separate heresies, the next one more terrifying then the last. It showed me the Dornian Heresy, where the arch-betrayer was Rogal Dorn and how he brutally killed his brothers drunk on the powers of Chaos. How very… unlikely that was to happen and happen it did. Next, it showed me the Guilliman Heresy where Horus, beloved by the Emperor, seized to exist handing down the mantle to Guilliman. Where the Emperor wept for the lost of yet another son. In this universe, the secrets of the ‘lost’ Primarchs are much more known though the Imperium. Last but not least, the webways conjured an image showing a third Heresy. At first, I thought it was one of its tricks but how wrong I was to doubt it now. It shows me a universe where there was three empires, one ruled by Sangunius, another by Chaos, and the third the Imperium of man. However, what shocked me most of all was not the splitting of the Imperium into three empires. No, what shock me the most was the death of the Emperor and the affect it had on the Imperium. Where the Imperium was in total chaos, Sangunius has carved out an empire of human perfection where humanity can ‘grow in peace.’

As I watched on from the very shadows, I could see that Sangunius, himself, was just too much like his father. His handsome features could have indeed resemble a ‘second’ Emperor. All his features, even his physic foresight, was nearly on par with that of his father and yet only second to his brother, Magnus the Red. He ruled his empire with charisma alongside his brothers, Vulkan the Salamander Prince and Corax the peacekeeper. Some would say they were tainted by the very powers of chaos while other claim they were tainted, not by chaos, but the eldars. Whatever the case, their realm was a paradise in a sea of violence, a holy land beckoning out to all of humanity. Even Leman Russ joined in on this rebelling for a purpose unknown even to them. Russ and his sons were now the protectors of that faithful land. Sangunius, the benevolent angel, was a beckon of hope in this age of darkness. With the death of the Emperor, it was up to Magnus to take up that mantle so the whole of the universe was not destroyed. His sons scattered into the four winds, some joining chaos while others joined with Sangunius. However, a few of his fateful sons were loyal to his gene-father helping train new inexperienced librarians. This event that caused this upheaval in a time of hope for the human race starts in a crusade to stop, or to destroy is more correct in this manner, the Locust tide, the Ullanor Crusade.

Here is some ideas I've been thinking about:

1.The Galaxy is still split into 3(well 4 if the tau is included) realms. The Chaos Realm ruled by the dark masters and the Primarchs turning toward Chaos to justified their own cost in the early days of the Great Crusade.

2. The emperor is near the point of dying but instead of placing him on the golden throne, they thought of presevring him in a static field(requested by Magnus the Red?). The Imperium has to find other means of stabling the Warp and Webways.

3. Heart broken by both the lost of his father and losting most of his sons, Magnus confines himself in his chamber on his homeworld. What he did no one truly knows but it wasn't soon that Magnus disappear leaving a transmission to the remainder of his sons that he will go in search, alone, to heal/ revived his own father.

4. Sangy, Vulkan, Dorn?, Corax, and Russ? becomes renegades and created their own empire in north-east Ultima Segmentum near the ghoul star. Each of them coming to their own end shortly afterwords. Russ still hated his brother, Magnus, disappears in search of him. Sangy is killed by both his brothers, Guilliman and Horus, but not before killing Horus and severely wounding Guilliman in the process? Dorn helped built an empire full of fortresses on every world only to fall to a large Ork Waagh!? Corax, nothing for now if any new ideas pops up for you just add it in. Yes this is similair in a sense to that of the Canon and the Dornian Heresy.

5. The Iron Hands, in the middle of the Heresy, mysteriously disappears. However over the course of ten- thousand years(not sure if this is the right date from 31-41), they start to move about. Yet, their objective is still unknown. Even more mysterious is their Primarch, Ferrus Manus. Weather, he is alive or not is still debated by scholars.

6. The Alpha Legion remains loyal to the Imperium, acting on orders(in their earlier days) of Horus to help root out the Heretic and even to spy on his brothers of Sangy and his empire. However, over the years of Horus death, their records were locked in the deepest of vaults on Terra and now they act on their own accord. They claim to be loyal to the Imperium but their own 'friends' has forgotten them.

7. Over the centuries, the Imperium realise that to continue to survive in this unforgiven galaxy came to rely upon the Eldar for certain information. This has been viewed by some as throwing away the traditional ways of the Imperium and its goal of humans domain in the galaxy. Civil war almost erupts pitting the Traditianalist and the Radicalist against each other. The Alpha Legion relies heavily upon the Eldars, more than other legion does.

8. The Taus starts to expand more aggressively than in the canon. Taus launch their attack on expansion much more earlier than the canon, catching much of the Imperium by surprise.

9. Guilliman never did review his plan of creating a more 'organize' way of organizing the legions. He consistly tried to prefect it but never did. Space Marines are still not split up but in their original order of things. This obession was carry on by each Chapter Master, wanting someday to review to the Imperium, continues to prefect it.

10. The Word Bearers clashed in the opening of the Heresy against each other. One led by Lorgar, who sided with the Emperor, viewing him as a father figure then a god. While the others are led by Kor Phaeron for Chaos.

11. The Necrons are awaken roughly the same time as the ones in the Canon. Well, to be more fair, they were awaken a little earlier than that, hiding until the time was right. The Deciever Shards continues to play its game while the Nightbringer continues to collect its shards that's been 'tossed' to the four corners of the Galaxy. The Outsider is still the same as canon. The Void Dragon, still on Mars just like the canon.

12. Chaos never did get fully forced back into the Eye of Terror, only up to the Cadia's Gate where they have a strong foothold in the area. The Dark Angels, same as Canon, broke up in a Civil War that was much more costly than the canon, making the legion a crusading legion. The Rock destoryed from Orbit, only realizing too late to change the outcome of it. Some have said that the Loyal Dark Angels are on the break of Extinction searching for the fallens who have to repent for their own sins. Some have also said that the dark angels has became even darker since that day.

13. Records of the Death Guards and the Warhounds are missing after the Heresy. Some say went to find a cure for their father, others claim they went into the Eye of Terror to hunt down their Brothers. From time to time, marines that of both of the legions could be seen on the battlefields only to vanish at the end of it all. Others have claimed they are the mysterious Legion of the Damned? Their Primarchs are unknown at the moment. Or even better yet they could be the Grey Knights instead.

14. The Heresy will take place on another planet altogether or after the events of the Ullanor Crusade. Not sure for the moment. Still thinking on how Sangy. could turn and have Corax, Dorn, and Vulkan join his cause besides using The destruction of Monarchia as a stepping stone. Heck, the event will most likely not take place at all.

15. The Lost Primarchs are around before the Heresy and will be hinted at only. Their records are not erased but as been missing since the heresy.

Tell me what you think of it. Any changes you would like to see? Any Events that could come forth with this?
Last edited by zolohunter on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby Chh » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:29 pm

I suspect I'd enjoy reading this.

Though, I wouldn't mind seeing something where Guilliman isn't incapacitated for millennia. Be a bit novel.

As for other ideas: instead of "Horus was a fool...", maybe one of the "good guys" (I don't know how grimdark this is going to be) could say "The Emperor was a fool...", or a variation thereof.

And by Warhounds, do you mean World Eaters?
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby zolohunter » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:45 am

Yes, I mean the World Eaters Legion, its just that they did not change their name and kept their original name. I'm just not sure where to place the Warhounds and Death guard legion. Chaos? Renegades? Loyalist? Any ideas on this? I might change it to where Guilliman does not die but instead is driven into a state of paranoia with the Death of the Emperor.

In this Version, Most of the marines truly does think the Emperor is a fool, mainly that of the Legions who turned chaos and Sangy., Corax, Russ, and Rogal.
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby Chh » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:12 pm

zolohunter wrote:Yes, I mean the World Eaters Legion, its just that they did not change their name and kept their original name. I'm just not sure where to place the Warhounds and Death guard legion. Chaos? Renegades? Loyalist? Any ideas on this? I might change it to where Guilliman does not die but instead is driven into a state of paranoia with the Death of the Emperor.

If my numbers are correct, then, given the number of "unknowns", one of those legions needs to be "loyal", while the other needs to fall to Chaos (assuming we want roughly equal numbers on each side, legion-wise).

zolohunter wrote:In this Version, Most of the marines truly does think the Emperor is a fool, mainly that of the Legions who turned chaos and Sangy., Corax, Russ, and Rogal.

Sorry, that should have read "Loyalist". Maybe Angron feels that way, and guards his father to ensure the he can tell it to the Emperor's face one day.

As for making it more grimdark...have all of the non-psyker Thousand Sons die from their mutations (at the hands of their psyker brethren and Magnus?)
Let Horus reunite the Imperium after the Heresy before getting killed?
Let Guilliman become an emotional wreck after the battle with Sanginious (i.e. no good to anyone, and probably locked up away from the general public, even if rumours still persist)?
Need a reason for Lucius (and Angron) not being around by M41. Maybe they have a massive argument and go off by themselves?

(This could be a bit much for one person - no offence. Could you use someone with no writing experience, but a reasonable knowledge of the 40k background?)
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby zolohunter » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:13 pm

By all means Chh, I need someone with a good knowledge of the Warhammer world to help me out on this one. :D As you had said "this is a bit too much for one person so feel free to include anything you think could help this timeline. Thanks! :D Glad to have you on border. This is not the 40k we known and love but a different timeline so lets have fun with it and experiment a little. :D

The setting for this universe is to have 3(4 if tau is included) empires: A choas empire just bearly holding onto the grounds or planets near the Eye of Terror, A empire in the North-East ruled by Sangy., Rogal, Vulkan, Russ, and Corax with rumors of it being more humane than their fathers' Empire(non- Chaos but still a renegade faction), and lastly but not lest, The Imperium of man or what's left of it after the aftermath of the Hersey who works with Xenos to secure their empires safety.

I like the ideas about having the non-pyskers die from their mutations. Maybe, Magnus sees it not as a curse but instead something to overcome to have a 'stronger' legion or something or on the other hand, maybe in this timeline, the Thousand Sons are not completely psykers and they don't have the mutations at all.

I like the ideas for Guilliman becoming an emotional wreak after the battle with Sangy. This could further his obsession with perfecting the Codex that he has been writing. I was thinking that he became this way from not being able to save his father from death.

Maybe for the World eaters/Warhounds and the Death guards became a counter-part to the Deathwatch and the Grey knights in this universe. Or that they both went in search for something or that's what rumor says. AS for their records could just be locked in the vaults instead or changed to something else.
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby zolohunter » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:59 pm

Anyone else want to add some ideas into this topic? Any ideas are fine with me. This AH does not need to be the same as the canon. Sangy. might not have wings and so forth, well you get the idea. :D
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion(updated)

Postby zolohunter » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:20 am

Warhammer 40k: Sanguinian Heresy Pre-concept stage

Main Basics:
•Horus never turned, so the Horus Heresy did not happen.
•Sanguinius rebel against his father becoming the “Arch-traitor”
•The heresy took place sometime before the original time-frame of the Horus heresy
•Certain events are different from Canon, some taking place before the heresy/rebellion
•After Emperor is placed in static-field, Horus, alongside Guilliman, became leader of the Imperium
•The galaxy is split into 3 main realms: Chaos who has a foothold on Cadia, The Imperium of man, and Sanguinius' Imperium
•The legion is kept intact for the most part

•Orks: Same as Canon
•Eldar: Same as Canon
•Dark Eldar: Same as Canon
•Tau: Expanded more aggressively pushing back the Ultramarines
•Necrons: Awoken somewhat earlier(still follows the Fifth edition)
•Tyranids: Same as Canon(follows Fifth edition)

Space Marines Legions:

Blood Angels
•Sanguinius starts to question the Emperor's 'quest to unite all of humanity' after the event of Monarchia
•Angry after the lost of so much innocence, Sanguinius sought out his father for question
•When his father did not prove him with the answers, he leapt at him. However embarrasses by his defeat, Sanguinius vow to himself to find out his father's actions of that day
•Sanguinius turned to one of his most loyal of brothers, Horus, for the answers. However Horus did not give a definite answer as well
•Sangiunius turned shocked many coming close to victory only to let go of it for honour to his father
•Post-Heresy, The Blood Angels returned home to found an empire more 'humane' than the Imperium of man
•Sanguinius dies in the hands of both Horus and Guilliman
•The Blood Angels, from that day on, changed their name to The Red Angels

Thousand Sons
•Magnus remains loyal
•Post-Heresy, Magnus suggest to place the Emperor in a static-field until a cure is found
•?(unsure as to what happen during the heresy as of yet)
•Leaves to the Eye of Terror, or so legends say, to find a cure for the Emperor
•Thousand Sons sees the flesh change not as a weakness but something to overcome to become stronger like the Curse of the Wulfen in Canon.

•Guilliman is still loyal
•Attacked by the Raven Guards to slow down their efforts to reaching Terra
•Heartbroken after the Heresy with the lost of yet another father
•Went into solitude in Macragge only to emerge a different man
•Kill Sanguinius along with his brother Horus only to receive a fatal blow in the exchange leaving him on the verge of dying
•Never revealed the Codex Astrate thinking it too imperfect
•His sons continues to 'perfect' it

Word Bearers
•Lorgar, happy that someone spoke up to the events of Monarchia, was shocked as to what happen next
•Broken out into civil war before the heresy happens with Kor Phaeron and Erebus leading the 'Chaos truth' and Lorgar leading the 'Imperial truth(Emperor's side)'
•Post-Heresy, the Wordbearers, those that say loyal to Lorgar, renamed themselves the Lightbringer Legion
•Always bringing the Imperial Truth to the darkest reaches of the Imperium
• Lorgar respected his father, not in action but in figure
•Kor Phaeron and Erebus has control of Cadia launching Holy Crusades into the Imperium(Chaos undivided)

War Hounds
•Angron, somewhat of a psychic himself, is loyal to the Emperor
•The Emperor rescued his son and his allies, teleporting them on board only to make plans to strike back at the oppressors
•Angron shows loyalty to the Emperor
•Post-Heresy, Angron emtombed to the Golden Throne
•Trains as a psyker to up holds the Golden Throne by Magnus after he reveals plans for saving his father
•War Hounds became known by public as the Grey Knights changing their colors to silver with twin axe crossing each other as their symbol

Luna Wolves
•Horus remains loyal, never turning in the first place
•After the entombment of the Emperor, Horus is left with being a leader of the Imperium alongside his brother, Guilliman
•kills Sanguinius with his brother, Guilliman
•Legions stayed the same, not splitting up into chapters as Guilliman never reveals the Codex

Iron Hands
•Ferrus Manus went renegade even before the Heresy broke out
•The Legion has their own secret agendas
•Discovers a tomb Complex in one of the planet, Ferrus Manus spent several weeks exploring the labyrinth
•When he did come out, he was a changed man telling his sons the replace their flesh with machines instead
•Turned a good portion of the Mechanicus to his cause and attacked Mars
•What happens there, no one knows and none spoke of it
•Disappears after the end of the heresy

White Scars
•Jaghatai Khan and his legion turn to the worship of Khorne in-between the heresy
•Jaghatai Khan first allied himself with the ideals of Sanguinius
•As he sought his way to Terra, halfway he and his legion left a path of death and destruction everywhere they went
•Jaghatai Khan would later kill his brother, Rogal Dorn in a confrontation known as The Valley of Blood
•Becomes a Demon Prince of Khorne

Dark Angels
•Civil war eurpts tearing the legion into two: Luther, who sides with the Emperor and the Lion, who later turns to the whispers of Slannesh
•Nothing was truly known of all the facts for none of the surviving Dark Angels reveals what happen
•One thing is known though, the planet of Caliban is completely destroyed from orbit and what most of the Legion's gene-seed are lost or is corrupted
•Post-Heresy, the Dark Angels changed their name to The Lost for they were just a fleet-based legion now without their father
•Some say, over the centuries, the legion has become 'darker'.
•The Lion became a Deamon Prince of She who thirst

Imperial Fists(need help on this)
•Rogal Dorn remained loyal
•He was never presented the Pain Glove

Raven Guards(need help on this)
•Corax went renegade, agreeing with Sanguinius' ideals
•Dealt with threats from within the Imperium of Sanguinius against Chaos cults, Imperial infiltrators and greedy sects
•Attacked Guilliman to slow down their efforts to Terra
•Where the Wolves are the Jaws of this new Imperium, the Ravens are the Eyes and Ears of the Imperium

Death Guards
•Some say that the Death Guards remained loyal til the end
•The fates of the Death Guards or the Dusk Raiders are known
•When the heresy started , they were already missing

Night Lords
•Konrad Kruze turned to the worship of Tzeentch
•His 'visions' growing worst by the days
•The changers of ways used this to his advantage giving Konrad mixed visions misleading him
•Konrad reached the seat of Deamonhood becoming a Deamon Prince
•Using his 'visions', Deamon Prince Konrad starts to change fate, itself

Salamanders(need help on this)
•It was natural for Vulkan to follow Sanguinius as far as ideals went
•Post-Heresy, the Legion turned to building the 'new' Imperium
•Where the Ravens were the eyes and ears and the Wolves the Jaws, the Lizards were the protectors of all

Space Wolves
•Russ went renegade for reasons unknown
•Where Russ was the Emperor's executioner, Russ, when turning also was Sanguinius executioner
•Went after Magnus into the Eye of Terror
•The Legion soon became the Jaws of Sanguinius' Imperium

Emperor's Children(need help on this)
•Fulgrim remains loyal
•Exterminated the planet of Laer of its filth, but never recovers the corrupted blade from the temples

Iron Warriors
•Perturabo turned towards the call of Nurgle
•The Iron Warriors were the ones who broke into the Imperial Gates spreading their disease onto the land
•Rivalry continues with the Imperial Fist til this day
•Perturabo became the Deamon Prince of Decay
•Breaking down even the most fortifed walls to spread its decay

Alpha Legions
•Like the Death Guards, their fates are unknown
•To most, the Alpha Legions are a stuff of legends
•There records are locked away in Imperial vaults, those who know that they exists are Horus, Guilliman, Fulgrim and a select few
•Alpharius and Guilliman remains friends sometimes working side by side
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion

Postby Chh » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:36 pm

I was bored last week, and zolohunter told me that he liked this. Hope everyone else does too

Constructive feedback welcome. Especially on dialogue. I do not like the dialogue here.


The Sanguinian Heresy

The Primarch of IX Legion had always been counted amongst the greatest of his brothers. He rivalled Magnus the Red in terms of pure psychic potential; he could compare with Leman Russ or Lion El'Johnson in combat; he was the most humane of all Primarchs, save for Vulkan. Indeed, Horus himself had once admitted that the Angel of Baal should have been Warmaster, and not he. In any case, it was the compassion of Sanguinius that lead him to turn against his gene-father. The Emperor, for all his physical perfection, psychic power and otherwise-noble goals, was a most ruthless man. Sanguinius, on the other hand...

The event, the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back, was the total annihilation of Monarchia, the crown jewel of the Word Bearer's achievements, including its citizenry. The Angel of Baal sought out his father, demanding answers for this overreaction, but the Anathema would not reveal the existence and nature of Chaos, not even to his gene-sons. Sanguinius then sought to strike down his father, but the Emperor's might was beyond him. Forced to flee, the Primarch gathered several of his brothers to his side, with the aim of replacing his father as ruler of Mankind.

It was at this time that several of the other Legions, with their Primarchs, revealed themselves to be Chaos worshippers. Corrupted by that most hated Marine, Erebus of the Word Bearer Legion, who lead half of the XVII Legion against the Imperium, along with the White Scar, Night Lord and Iron Warrior Legions, as well as half of the Dark Angels. The galaxy fell into a three-way civil war.

The Imperium initially had the upper hand over the renegades and the Forces of Chaos, lead as they were by the Emperor, Horus and Guilliman. However, neither the Emperor nor his Primarchs could be present everywhere at once, and with the power of the Primordial Annihilator fuelling them, the Chaos forces were able to inflict heavy defeats on both the forces of the Imperium, and Sanguinius' troops.

In an event that puzzles many of the greatest minds, even to this day, the Chaos Space Marines remained (mostly) focussed on one foe; namely, the Emperor. The most popular theory is that, as deadly as Sanguinius and his brothers were, the Anathema was still a danger, even to the gods of Chaos themselves. While loathe to take advantage of the weakness of his father's forces in this way, the Angel of Baal seized the opportunity [to great effect]. In a series of superb strategic manoeuvres, a path was cleared to Terra (while space is three-dimensional, and the sheer distances involved make a mockery of any attempt to "hold the line" in any way, certain systems can be key for troop and fleet movements; no human fleet can go indefinitely without resupply).

Gathering the full force of his fleets, Sanguinius lead an armada to Terra. While the number of lives lost easily reached the trillions, and many irreplaceable vessels were destroyed, the Sanguine forces manage to gain a foothold on the homework of humanity.

At the same time, the War for Mars occurred; an unexplained and cataclysmic event which left the Red Planet permanently inhospitable, beyond the reach of terra-forming. The Iron Hands legion assaulted Mars, blasting away ruins and metals. The War for Mars was a thing undreamt-of, where gods battled one another as the heavens split open and the ground shook with such horror that every mortal cowered. The Iron Hands, it is whispered, came for one reason and one reason alone; to take what they held be rightfully theirs...but this shall be covered in more detail later.

Back on Terra, the situation soon degenerated into a meat-grinding mêlée, with Sanguinius unable to force either a crippling blow or a confrontation with his father, while the Emperor, even with his strategic brilliance, was unable to remove the foothold his son had on Terra, or deny Sanguinius the use of at least one the spaceports.

Frustrated at causing a situation which was near-opposite to what he was seeking, and with the Chaos Legions approaching rapidly towards Terra behind him, Sanguinius [the one thing that the Emperor could not ignore/resist]. The void shields were lowered on the battle barge Blade of Vengeance. Gathering his Primarchs to him, the Emperor teleported aboard, to bring his renegade sons to heel. By a considerable exertion of his psychic might at the moment of transport, Sanguinius managed to separate the Emperor from his Custodian bodyguards and the loyalist Primarchs. Several members of the Adeptus Custodes made it to Sanguinius ahead of their liege, and unwisely chose to engage the Angel of Baal, an act which only accomplished their deaths.

His father, on the other hand, would not be so easy to deal with. However, Sanguinius had planned for this confrontation since it became evident that the Emperor would not be dissuaded. Therefore, his brothers: Vulkan, Corax and Russ were near at hand when the Emperor blasted onto Blade of Vengeance's bridge. Faced with the united strength of several of his sons, each of them unwearied from having to fight their way through the vessel, this task would tax even the Anathema. There was little to be said, yet this..."family" communed anyway.

Regarding his defiant sons before him, the Emperor asked one question:


"You would destroy Mankind to save it, Father," replied Sanguinius, "The Imperium has been built on a foundation of lies, treachery and corpses."


"No, they do not, and no, they are not,"


"Then let us end this," Russ replied.

And with that, combat commenced. Both Primarchs and Emperor were lords of war, at the height of physical perfection, powerful psykers all. Wielding weapons the like of which had not been made before, nor have been made since, each combatant dealt blows that would have killed mortal men a dozen times over. The Anathema knew his sons well, and could predict their attacks, but he was outnumbered three-to-one, and his sons used this to their advantage. While the clash of blades generated shockwaves that shattered the structures around then, each Primarch was where his brothers could not be; more than once preventing a killing blow landing home. For hours on end they duelled, but even the Emperor's blade was not truly omnipresent, and he suffered several near-incapacitating injuries.

"Hold!" cried the Angel, his voice enough to halt the Wolf's blade for but a moment.

"Why?" was snarled in reply, "He cares not; he has not held back in trying to slay us."

"We seek to bring an end to this madness; would we start by killing our own father?"

Thus piercing the red mist that had clouded Leman's mind, none could bring himself to strike down the Emperor, and had what Custodes were left teleported to Terra, along with Horus, Magnus, Angron and the mortally wounded Emperor. Sanguinius' forces then left Terra in shame, to return to Baal and establish an Imperium of their own.

The Emperor managed to cling onto life for a time after Sanguinius left. Indeed, long enough for Magnus to offer to sacrifice himself, that the Emperor might...possess his body, which would have destroy Magnus' soul utterly, yet restoring the Emperor to health. This ultimate offer of sacrifice was refused by the Anathema, feeling that this was too close to daemonhood; the Emperor forbade any contemplation of such an idea. With no other solution at hand, the broken body of the once-master of Mankind was sealed inside a stasis field; not curing him, but giving his sons many millennia to find a solution.
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion [Updated]

Postby zolohunter » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:04 am

Here is the link to the whole alternate version of 40k this is just for ideas and discussion: ... pic=254879
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion [Updated]

Postby MetalKing1417 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:26 pm

Link is faulty, I cannot access the page.
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion [Updated]

Postby Chh » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:06 pm

MetalKing1417 wrote:Link is faulty, I cannot access the page.

B&C will only let you see the page if you're logged in on their forums. Are you registered?
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion [Updated]

Postby zolohunter » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:47 pm

MetalKing1417 wrote:Link is faulty, I cannot access the page.

Yeah, Probably should not have done that. Lol. :D
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Re: Sanguinian Heresy Discussion [Updated]

Postby zolohunter » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:19 am

Here is what I got so far involving the Blood Angels:

A comet of pure red and white hurled down from the heavens, crashing and tumbling towards the ground. Upon its final impact, a crater was left and a sound that could be heard for thousands of miles. When it was settled and the dust disappeared, a metal object could be seen in the center. It would be then that a tribe of humans came across it, wondering what the heavens has sent them, and was startled to find a child in this 'contraption'. Upon closer look, this infant sported a pair of pure white wings, like that of an angel from old mythology, on its back. The tribe saw this not as a good omen but a bad one as they see this as a weakness. The tribe soon came to one and only one conclusion: The infant must be tainted though his features are as handsome as that of a prince, he is nevertheless tainted with these 'wings' on his back. However before the final blow could come, the knife inches away from his heart, a old crone spoke up telling of what will be and what will come if the infant were to live. Hearing of this, the tribe stopped and looked upon the infant and the bloodletting of this event. This would eventually change everything that will come. The tribe that took the angelic infant into their humble home was called the Tribe of the pure blood for they were never tainted by any mutation. The tribe leaders gave a name to the angelic infant calling him, Sangunius.

However before Sangunius came to the planet that would later be known as Baal Secondus, he was scattered away from his true father, hurling though time and space with his other brothers. It would be on this 'event' that little Sangunius, rumors would come to say, saw the future and present unfold in front of his very eyes. It was said he saw the great crusade unfold before him, how he would be united with his father, and the Imperium after the crusade. What's more Sangunius saw, though his visions, what has became of two of his brothers and the fate that each of them would meet. In one of his visions, he saw a figure of shining white light that could pierce into the darkness, throwing back the chaos and horrors of the galaxy. His light was bright enough to cast demon aside in the warp however this was cut short as he went on a crusade to tell his father the truth of what he saw. For like Sangunius and his brother, Konrad Curze, this one particular brother also could see the future for he is illuminated, for he is illuminati.

Tell me what you think so far. Things are not final and its still a work in progress for me. :D The ideas for the two visions comes from Blacklibrary bolthole's 60K: The Eridani Records by Sardaukar who gives in detail the visions that I just told here. In this, I though of get a few peices here and there on them while keeping them a secret as well. To get thw full story, read his work over at the Black library bolthole.
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Re: Sanguinian Succession Discussion(Alt. Heresy)[Updated]

Postby Chh » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:19 am

And now for some of Space Marine Legions. In what hopefully is some logical order. Again, please give feedback

Of the Legio Astartes, and their Primarchs:

Word Bearers: The Catalyst

XVII Legion had always had a fanatical edge. Prior to the discovery of their Primarch, the then-Imperial Heralds threw themselves wholeheartedly into the spread of the Imperial Truth. After Lorgar was re-united with his gene-father, large swathes of the Heralds moved to a position of Emperor-worship; a direct contravention of the anti-theist doctrines of the Imperial Truth. For a time, even Lorgar himself held his father to be a god-in-flesh. Yet the inevitable cathedral building and proselytising that followed this attitude meant that, while each world taken by XVII Legion had little in the way of rebellions, or even discontent, their progress was significantly slower than, say, the sons of Sanguinius - or even the Salamanders. Matters eventually came to a head on the world of Khur. While virtually unheard-of now, many more know of Monarchia, its capital city, and the crown jewel of the Imperial Heralds. The Ultramarines, after allowing ample amounts of timefor the Word Bearers to assemble in their entirety blasted Monarchia to dust; the psychic shockwave felt by the sudden death of so many was readily felt by both Lorgar and his gene-father. The Emperor's psychic might was then used to make the Adeptus Astartes of XVII Legion, along with their Primarch, kneel in realty to the Imperial Truth, and re-dedicate themselves to war, as is the ultimate purpose of a Space Marine.

While this was initially a private matter between the Emperor, the Imperial Heralds and the Ultramarines, news would eventually spread to the other Legions, their Primarchs included, prompting Sanguinius' subsequent actions. However, this took a non-trivial amount of time to transpire, and thus the Heralds had an amount of time after this atrocity to consider all that had come to pass.
Two high-ranking members of XVII Legion used this time to terrible effect; Kor Phaeron and Erebus. The former was the First Captain, while the latter was the First Chaplain of the Imperial Heralds; given the background of this Legion, these two were practically equals.
Baffled, bemused and feeling a bit betrayed by the bombardment of Monarchia, these two Battle Brothers sought permission from their Primarch - and commander - to undertake a personal pilgrimage, pursuing old legends of the planet upon which the Primarch's gestation pod landed, Colchis. While surprised by this request, Lorgar allowed them to travel from their Legion, thus inadvertently triggering the ascent of Chaos in the realms of Man.

While Lorgar would eventually emerge from the sparse environs of his quarters, moving at what was still a slow pace, yet still satisfying the Emperor's expectations, Phaeron and Erebus would travel to many part of the galaxy. Indeed some suggest that the slow, but steady, progress of the Space Marines sought to secure time for Erebus and Phaeron to succeed. Eventually, the pair reached a world bordering the astronomical phenomenon known as the Eye of Terror; a world that would later garner great infamy. Cadia. The two Imperial Heralds met a certain Chaos-serving crone, who claimed to serve the true gods of the universe. Erebus fell first, followed swiftly by Phaeron.

Finally, these two returned, telling little of what had transpired. Lorgar was told of a terrible, terrifying Primordial Truth, which would traumatise the Heralds if told too early. Truthfully, this was nothing more than a ruse, to allow the corruption of more of the XVII Legion, and to prepare for the Primarch's conversion.
Then, the unexpected and unplanned-for happened: Sanguinius finally found out what had happened at Monarchia, and had confronted the Anathema. Subsequently, the Angel seceded from the Imperium. Seeing that they had the ideal time to act, Erebus and Phaeron revealed all to Lorgar. However, and somewhat surprisingly, the Aurelian did not turn to Chaos. When it was clear that Urizen could not be corrupted by Chaos, the pair attack their Primarch. Caught off-guard by this treachery, Lorgar was still a gene-son of the Emperor, and easily bested them; Erebus escaped with his life, albeit barely, while Kor Phaeron was slain by an new psychic power that Lorgar unwittingly used - his soul was blasted from his body by the one he had once fostered, there to dwell in the Warp for eternity. Erebus gathered those of the Imperial Heralds who had turned to Chaise, and set about corrupting the other Legions.

Lorgar had managed to resist Chaos by an unusual method. While no longer worshipping his father, he instead venerated him as the ideal man; perfection that one could aspire to. As Chaos and the Emperor were foes, siding with Chaos would permanently deny Lorgar's deepest desires. Furthermore, while secretly thrilled that someone else had spoken out about the slaughter at Monarchia, the Auerlian was soon shocked at Sanguinius' secession and subsequent actions.

(In fairness to Guilliman, the Emperor deliberately ensured that Roboute was far from Khur when its capital was destroyed, with the goal of avoiding any resentment between the brothers. Because of the events following the Secession, we can only assume that this worked. On the other hand, had Guilliman been present, perhaps the Imperium would never have splintered from Sanguinius' secession...)

After the Secession, and the driving back of his treacherous sons to Cadia, Lorgar announced that his Legion were no longer the Imperial Heralds. They would become the Light Bribery Legion, for they would bring the light of Imperial Truth to the darkest corners of the galaxy.

On the other hand, the Chaotic elements of the Heralds also renamed themselves. They would bring the word of the Primordial Annihilator to the unbelievers, and bear it they would. They that were the true traitors transformed into...the Word Bearers. Erebus conquered Cadia, perceiving that this "Gate" of stable access to the Eye of Terror would be strategically important, and so constructed a great fortress on its surface. Then, he set about his most dangerous work yet. With many sacrifices, pacts and bargains with the duplicitous denizens of the help-dimension where dwelt Phaeron's soul, the former First Captain found himself forced into a new body, one that was bound to be utterly obedient to the command of Erebus. Enraged, he is always at the Dark Apolstle's side, serving his serpent of a comrade with great loathing and disgust.

Lorgar would eventually disappear, presumed dead, during a boarding action against what the forces of Chaos would label the first Holy Crusade. While the Primarch's remains have never been identified, his effects have been, in a state consistent with being blasted with many barrage of Warp-borne lightning, coupled with salvoes of melta guns. Erebus has been known to claim, even to crow, that he struck down the Primarch in single combat, and rendered unto him a similar fate to what Phaeron suffered at Lorgar's hands...

Emperor's Children:

The Emperor’s Children, and their Primarch Fulgrim, had long been concerned with perfection in all things. As Fulgrim considered his gene-father, the Emperor, to be the perfect example of a man, III Legion sought to imitate the Emperor in all things; they constantly sought to align themselves with his viewpoint. Included in this was a definite human-centric viewpoint; man had a manifest destiny among the stars, and so all xenos should be exterminated without question.

At no point was this attitude more prevalent than during the Laer campaign. The Laer were a race of reptiles, each of whom was genetically adapted for their individual purpose. Enraged at the suggestion of some within the Imperium that the Laer should be considered a protected species, Fulgrim ordered their extermination. And to ensure that no-one would ever again propose that xenos, and hence imperfection, should be tolerated, the Emperor’s Children utilised the most devastating weapon in their arsenal: Exterminatus.

First, the Legion moved into the Laer system. Second, all Laer craft capable of spaceflight were utterly destroyed, preventing any of the xenos from fleeing their homeworld. Third, virus bombs and cyclone torpedoes were unleashed upon the now-defenceless planet; the virus bombs caused the spread of deadly pathogens throughout the population, while the cyclone torpedoes induced massive weather events, wreaking destruction as virus bombs wreak death. Finally, all capable vessels fired on the planet, and continued to fire until the crust cracked, the magma spilled in space, and the very core was shattered. These events had been recorded in great detail, and Fulgrim commanded the images to be broadcast throughout the Imperium.

While such actions were extreme, even by the Emperor’s standards, Fulgrim managed to avoid being corrupted by Chaos, unlike others who had acted so atrociously. This is speculated to be partly to do with his close friendship with his fellow Primarch Horus, who himself had avoided corruption by the Primordial Annihilator. Certainly, had Horus turned, the result for the galaxy would have been dire indeed...
Furthermore, Fulgrim was dedicated to his father, and while the Anathema was surprised by the actions of his Primarch, he preferred that xenos were massacred, rather than Chaos be fed by fallen souls.

One mystery remains about the Laer, however: Fulgrim, and several of his most powerful Librarians, reported feeling "a presence, powerful yet bound" and "a strong sense of...wrongness" emanating from one point on the planet, which had dissipated by the time that planet-cracking weaponry was deployed. After the events of the Heresy (and so the existence of Chaos and daemons became known to the Primarchs), Magnus of the Thousand Sons would suggest that the Emperor's Children may have inadvertently destroyed a powerful Daemon Weapon. What became of the entity that would had resided in it, however, along with its existence in the first place, is, for the moment, a matter best left for academics to speculate on...

As centuries, and even millennia passed, the Imperium became more reliant on...outside assistance in order to survive. This never sat well with Fulgrim, who still held that Man, by being the race who gave rise to the Emperor, ranked first among the stars; consorting with xenos, even for survival, ranked him no end. Finally, the Phoenician could bear it no longer, and left Imperial space. His last known communication was a charge to his children: cleanse the realm of Man of the xenos infestation, and their gene-sire would return. Until then, humanity was "unworthy" of the title of perfection.

For the love of their Primarch, the Emperor's Children acted accordingly. They sought to watch the mutant, the abhuman and alien die. They would study the Eldar, the Ork, the Necron, and (eventually) the Tyranid, as well as all the other alien blighting Imperial purity. The Imperium would not welcome them; they would paint their armour black, the better to strike unseen. They would become...the Deathwatch.
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Re: Sanguinian Succession Discussion(Alt. Heresy)[Updated]

Postby JJvagnar » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:43 pm

Looking forward to hearing how the White scars fall to Tzeentch.
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