General 40K Lore Q&A

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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby David Earle » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:41 pm

Don't quote multiple images please. :ugeek:

For what it's worth, I think the idea of a Chapter that takes ceremonial wives from its homeworld's population would be fascinating. Unworkable with the grimdark, perhaps, but as a way to maintain the Astartes' ties to humanity it would be pretty cool.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Xisor » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:18 pm

David Earle wrote:Unworkable with the grimdark


Even Disney's love is deeply sinister. Real world marriage isn't exactly an hilarious scamper from youth to the grave either. Plenty of grim to go around.

---

For what it's worth, the idea of the Salamanders living with the families weirds me a little. It depends on which way it falls, I suppose: it is a lesson in stoic acceptance of banality and tedium, or an actual emotional connection? Which would be more thematically fitting and apt for the Salamanders?

Perhaps oddly,even for being conceptually and principally the most human of the Space Marines, their cult adherence to independence and stoicism leads me to imagine that, perhaps, the Salamanders as individuals are both deeply messed up and grotesquely... functional. So they can serve humanity humbly and heroically, but it comes at the price of forging their individual self into an impenetrable, stubby personality... one whose reach and ability to properly relate to everyone (even other marines) has been shorn away by their utter... competence at being self-reliant. An army of people supposed to be both superhuman and also, in their lifestyle, hermits. And then perhaps only when they get to Firedrake level do they get to join the fraternity of hermits, a la...

The Doctor: And Utopia is...?
Professor Yana: Oh, every human knows of Utopia. Where have you been?
The Doctor: Bit of a Hermit.
Professor Yana: A-a hermit
[sounds doubtful]
Professor Yana: with, uh, friends?
The Doctor: Hermits United. We meet up every 10 years, swap stories about caves. It's good fun. For a Hermit.

Except that where the Doctor's just glossing over the truth, it'd be inverted for the Salamanders: deeply informed about humans, able to do immense, Poirot-style 'social' research but, themselves, they're fiendishly awful travelling companions.

So the Firedrakes actually would be hermits being 'forced' back into socialising and camaraderie, with their lobotomised, malformed or barely-calibrated social skills. Noble martyrs of the Promethean Creed, sacrificing their perfected solace and solitude at the altar of being eminently, superhumanly, grotesquely sociable. (Err, for Space Marines...)

---

I think I just created a headcanon for Salamanders...

Salamanders. Weirdoes.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby David Earle » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:24 pm

Xisor wrote:
David Earle wrote:Unworkable with the grimdark


Even Disney's love is deeply sinister. Real world marriage isn't exactly an hilarious scamper from youth to the grave either. Plenty of grim to go around.


Yeah, that's the fascinating bit. :lol: The unworkable bit comes from the security threat of creating a bond between a Space Marine and a baseline human outside the Chapter's serf hierarchy. With genestealers and Chaos cultists running around, even ceremonial wives would be quickly deemed unacceptable by the Chapter leadership or a passing Inquisitor, and such relationships would need to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Hrm... perhaps less unworkable in the fiction, more unlikely to last long in the setting.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby revelation » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:14 am

David Earle wrote:Don't quote multiple images please. :ugeek:



Why not?

You the forum police or something?
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby revelation » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:17 am

Xisor wrote:
David Earle wrote:Unworkable with the grimdark


Even Disney's love is deeply sinister. Real world marriage isn't exactly an hilarious scamper from youth to the grave either. Plenty of grim to go around.

---

For what it's worth, the idea of the Salamanders living with the families weirds me a little. It depends on which way it falls, I suppose: it is a lesson in stoic acceptance of banality and tedium, or an actual emotional connection? Which would be more thematically fitting and apt for the Salamanders?

Perhaps oddly,even for being conceptually and principally the most human of the Space Marines, their cult adherence to independence and stoicism leads me to imagine that, perhaps, the Salamanders as individuals are both deeply messed up and grotesquely... functional. So they can serve humanity humbly and heroically, but it comes at the price of forging their individual self into an impenetrable, stubby personality... one whose reach and ability to properly relate to everyone (even other marines) has been shorn away by their utter... competence at being self-reliant. An army of people supposed to be both superhuman and also, in their lifestyle, hermits. And then perhaps only when they get to Firedrake level do they get to join the fraternity of hermits, a la...

The Doctor: And Utopia is...?
Professor Yana: Oh, every human knows of Utopia. Where have you been?
The Doctor: Bit of a Hermit.
Professor Yana: A-a hermit
[sounds doubtful]
Professor Yana: with, uh, friends?
The Doctor: Hermits United. We meet up every 10 years, swap stories about caves. It's good fun. For a Hermit.

Except that where the Doctor's just glossing over the truth, it'd be inverted for the Salamanders: deeply informed about humans, able to do immense, Poirot-style 'social' research but, themselves, they're fiendishly awful travelling companions.

So the Firedrakes actually would be hermits being 'forced' back into socialising and camaraderie, with their lobotomised, malformed or barely-calibrated social skills. Noble martyrs of the Promethean Creed, sacrificing their perfected solace and solitude at the altar of being eminently, superhumanly, grotesquely sociable. (Err, for Space Marines...)

---

I think I just created a headcanon for Salamanders...

Salamanders. Weirdoes.


We are talking about the chapter that practices ceremonial branding and general masochism. I'm a fan of their weirdness.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby David Earle » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:40 pm

revelation wrote:
David Earle wrote:Don't quote multiple images please. :ugeek:



Why not?

You the forum police or something?


That's it, you're going downtown. :P
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby revelation » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:22 pm

David Earle wrote:
revelation wrote:
David Earle wrote:Don't quote multiple images please. :ugeek:



Why not?

You the forum police or something?


That's it, you're going downtown. :P


Image
:P ;)
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby SIngemeister » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:49 am

Did Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ get along? Sources seem conflicted, some say yes for their barbarian roots, others say no because the Khan tried to be more than a barbarian, etcetera, etcetera...
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:53 am

SIngemeister wrote:Did Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ get along? Sources seem conflicted, some say yes for their barbarian roots, others say no because the Khan tried to be more than a barbarian, etcetera, etcetera...

Well, Scars has some things to say on this, so I'll spoiler tag it:

Spoiler: They respect each other for their prowess, kinda, but they are not friends. In fact, the Khan dislikes Russ for his 'Executioner' shtick while Russ thinks the Khan is unreliable, unpredictable and suspect. When Russ actually has to call the Khan for help, he does so with gritted teeth - and the Khan turns him down.




Which brings me to my own question, addressed to those of you who played Dawn of War. I didn't play it, but I read the books and I spent quite a lot of time on youtube recently watching an entire playthrough of DoW2: Retribution. Now I am confused. Lexi, the DoW wiki etc all say that Librarian Jonah Orion dies in the final battle against a certain Diablo clone. I watched that fight quite often and where does that happen? At one point the characters say that he died but they say the same about Angelos. I don't think the player sees it happen, or was this just something that couldn't be seen on the vids I watched?
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby SIngemeister » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:59 pm

Liliedhe wrote:
SIngemeister wrote:Did Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ get along? Sources seem conflicted, some say yes for their barbarian roots, others say no because the Khan tried to be more than a barbarian, etcetera, etcetera...

Well, Scars has some things to say on this, so I'll spoiler tag it:

Spoiler: They respect each other for their prowess, kinda, but they are not friends. In fact, the Khan dislikes Russ for his 'Executioner' shtick while Russ thinks the Khan is unreliable, unpredictable and suspect. When Russ actually has to call the Khan for help, he does so with gritted teeth - and the Khan turns him down.




Which brings me to my own question, addressed to those of you who played Dawn of War. I didn't play it, but I read the books and I spent quite a lot of time on youtube recently watching an entire playthrough of DoW2: Retribution. Now I am confused. Lexi, the DoW wiki etc all say that Librarian Jonah Orion dies in the final battle against a certain Diablo clone. I watched that fight quite often and where does that happen? At one point the characters say that he died but they say the same about Angelos. I don't think the player sees it happen, or was this just something that couldn't be seen on the vids I watched?


I do remember my Hive Tyrant and his associates stomping across the prone body of Jonah Orion around halfway down the winding path towards El Diablo's pit. I think you just see his corpse,
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:17 pm

Do you have to fight him if you play Tyranids or something else?
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Fenris » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:27 pm

Liliedhe wrote:Do you have to fight him if you play Tyranids or something else?

He dies "offscreen"
I do remember my Hive Tyrant and his associates stomping across the prone body of Jonah Orion around halfway down the winding path towards El Diablo's pit. I think you just see his corpse

Exactly.
When you reach the point of the map where the last support base (i.e the base of Angelos) is,his corpse is on the ground

And i think it's the same on every campaign (can't be sure,been too long since i last played Retribution)
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby SIngemeister » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:08 pm

Fenris wrote:
Liliedhe wrote:Do you have to fight him if you play Tyranids or something else?

He dies "offscreen"
I do remember my Hive Tyrant and his associates stomping across the prone body of Jonah Orion around halfway down the winding path towards El Diablo's pit. I think you just see his corpse

Exactly.
When you reach the point of the map where the last support base (i.e the base of Angelos) is,his corpse is on the ground

And i think it's the same on every campaign (can't be sure,been too long since i last played Retribution)


You do get to play as Jonah in the tutorial. As far as I remember, it's the same in all campaigns, though I haven't played the full campaigns for a while.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:24 pm

*hugs Jonah* Dying off screen sucks. ^^

Well, the Tutorial ends with him saying he will stop the Chaos guys, so it might be that he is an opponent in the Chaos Campaign.
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby SIngemeister » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:12 am

Liliedhe wrote:*hugs Jonah* Dying off screen sucks. ^^

Well, the Tutorial ends with him saying he will stop the Chaos guys, so it might be that he is an opponent in the Chaos Campaign.


No, you just kill Davian Thule in Chaos. Which is also pretty traumatic.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:57 am

I found that on the wiki and agree. I am not going to look for a vid of that :(

But well, it's not clear what exactly is canon or not, as there were no further games. I think it is just established that Gabriel is Chapter Master now.
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:20 pm

Do all perpetuals have some sort of psyker ability, as whilst we've only seen two maybe three is it? of that group two were psykers to some degree, John Grammaticus defiantly Damon maybe only slightly?
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby Xisor » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:23 pm

sam vimes wrote:Do all perpetuals have some sort of psyker ability, as whilst we've only seen two maybe three is it? of that group two were psykers to some degree, John Grammaticus defiantly Damon maybe only slightly?


Well, they can come back from the dead. That's pretty psychic.
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby LordLucan » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:35 pm

Oll lacks overt psychic powers, as he's just a 'normal' immortal ancient. ;)
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Re: General 40K Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:09 pm

Thank you for the answers lol
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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