General Whf Lore Q&A

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:42 pm

I can't see anything wrong with the grammar there, although the wording might be a little clumsy.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:45 pm

I always imagined Cold Ones would be 10-15ft myself. Even accounting for the models for the tabletop not being to scale 30ft seems ridiculous.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:42 pm

Well, I thought "Malus's Spite" looked odd.

10-15 ft seems ok, how much bigger can the DE handle. I'm at the first chapter of TDC and the nauglirs started to chew through people.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:45 pm

I suppose they are longer than they are tall, but yeah still, compared to a horse at that size they'd be impossible to ride really.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:36 pm

Totally random question, mostly because I am at a loss to recall this.

Are there windows in the WHF world? Like glassed windows?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:44 pm

Yes. However, remember that glass-making techniques are pre-industrial so glass itself will be expensive, large contiguous pieces will be rare (and likely used as mirrors rather than windows) and very large pieces will be pretty much non-existent. The majority of glass windows will be made up of smaller bits of glass held together with lead (like in most stained glass windows, for instance). In poor and rural areas glass windows will be rare - unglazed openings with shutters are likely.
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In terms of its depiction of Dark Elf society the books probably aren't that wide of the mark; in fact they may represent our best sources. But in other areas it's way off. Har Ganeth, fluffwise, is ruled by Tullaris and his Executioners with an iron grip; in the novels they don't appear at all, but the city is overrun with zealots, who aren't referenced anywhere else. The Warpsword of Khaine - well, that's clearly supposed to be the Sword of Khaine we all know and love, except that that's on the Blighted Isle and hasn't been drawn in thousands of years. There are lots of references to the "betrayal of cursed Aenarion" and the like, which is odd, because the druchii revere him if anything more than the High Elves. Much of the stuff that happens - the destruction of cities, and the like (those worm things?!) - isn't supported anywhere else. At the time the mention of gods other than Khaine had no support from any other source either. And so on.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:45 pm

Good, good, just what I had in mind actually :D
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:31 pm

There was a short story about a temple with a cursed stained glass window. Ebil! :)

The word 'warpsword' sounds very clumsy and old-fashioned. When you know very little of the background it''s easy to take the novels as the truth. :?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:52 am

I was going to do this as a seperate thread but I'm on here through my ps3 so sod it any wanting deeper discussion either PM me or comment here or create said thread so more can be sacrificed to Khaine.

In the adventures of Darkblade we are shown a large amount of how Druchi society and how the dark elves live and work, but and here for me is the important bit we only see it through Malus's eyes a highborn no less, who by and large only cares for himself.

I have the DE army book and in none of it does confirm or debunk (hope I used the right word) Malus's adventures beyond the obvious he's got T'zarkan as a room mate is rubbing shoulders with Malekith as his champion and rules the dark crag, but as others have said details are missing some big ones, but again I come back to a previous point, we are shown Druchi society through Malus's eyes and Malus's eyes alone and well Malus REALLY (sry can't do italics on ps3 with ease) doesn't care about details over much you get in his way he kills you its not complex lol he even says he will grind continents to dust to free himself from the curse so as to who rules what city is kinda low on the to do list.

And well I have to ask when said books were done which army book was used the current one or the last one what was changed?, I only have the current one so don't know what was changed if anything or perhaps and here comes the crushing blow children, the codex (sry couldn't resist love winding the more straight laced fans up by calling army books codexes) and the novels are probably not meant to set the Druchi society and thier world view in stone otherwise if they did thier'd be no room for fan/author debate and interpretation so I see th DE army book as a general overview of them and given all the background info in the army book (that is lacking in the empire one but was in the last one serious cock up thier lads IMO) the Druchi have many more tales to tell and well Malus started as a comic strip Mike and had a big o'l mountain to climb when expanding on them, so to end neither tye army book or the novels IMO give a full answer on thier own read both, draw your own conclusion and debate kinda like how were doing now :)

Right on the whole cold one size given how thier raised/evolved in a dark damp environment like the warrens in Naggaroth or the hot steamy jungles of Lustria perhaps thier longer than they are broad kinda like the rhodesian ridge back that my sister has roxy doesn't look strong or heavy but believe me she has both in spades google the breed and you'll see what I mean I know the comparsion is a bit stretched but best I can come up with after a 8hr shift in a retail job during bloody christma.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:48 pm

What exactly is a warrior priest? There are the knights of Morr that I know of. Are there more? Do the Grail Knights have anything to do with warrior priests?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:33 pm

Warrior priests are ordained members of the clergy who fight on the battlefield. They are represented in the Sigmarite Church by the Order of the Hammer (as opposed to the Order of the Torch, who run the churches, the Order of the Cleansing Flame, and the former Order of the Silver Hammer). Most other cults don't have such a distinct delineation between warrior priests and "regular" priests, but then few cults are as openly martial as the Sigmarite one.

There are warrior priests of most other cults, although most of them might not think of themselves as such. An Ulrican priest would probably see it as his duty to fight any evil he encountered regardless of his specified role within the church: that's the nature of the cult. The same goes for Taalite priests, I should imagine. Manannite priests are obviously pretty specialist: they'd probably be expected to pitch in in defending a ship they were assisting if pirates or whoever attacked it. Shallya would have no warrior priests at all- the cult is pacifist. Ranald would have very few, if any, because the cult doesn't really approve of open combat (it's not good business). Morr and Verena are mostly civilian gods, but there might be priests attached to templar orders who would be considered "warrior priests" in the usual sense. And Myrmidia will have loads, although possibly not all that many in the Empire.

Warrior priest are distinct from templars, who are lay members of the church sworn to defend it, but aren't ordained and couldn't perform blessings or miracles or conduct services in normal situations (in exceptional circumstances they might be called upon to do so on the basis it'd be better than nothing). Most of the churches have at least a couple of orders attached to them to perform this function (again, not Shallya or Ranald). The distinction can sometimes be a bit blurred: it seems the Reiksguard are often considered a Sigmarite order even though they're really secular. The Witch Hunters are nominally secular but are to all intents and purposes actually Sigmarite templars. The knights of Morr you mention are templars rather than warrior priests, although as I say, they might have priests attached to them.

Grail Knights are more akin to templars than warrior priests: they'll guard shrines but won't be expected to do much preaching - that's for the damsels. But then the Lady is a pretty upper-class god in any case, so the damsels probably wouldn't spend much time preaching in villages or towns anyway; they'd probably act more as spiritual advisers to the local lord.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Vivia » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:37 pm

Thanks a lot for the background info. I ordered Warrior Priest and realised that I didn't know much about them.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:07 pm

I've finished reading Luthor Huss, and since I know next to nothing about the Fantasy setting (aside from a few articles read on lexi), I have a couple of questions.

- What exactly is a living saint and what is an angel in this setting?

- The book gave me the impression that there are two sorts of chaos in this setting, or two flavours, if you will. One that is intrinsic to the world and one that comes from 'the warp' or whatever it is called there. Is this true?

- Are Beastman chaos creatures?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:15 pm

I haven't read Luther Huss yet so I'm not sure how to help.

To my knowledge Living Saints and Angels aren't really things. Various churches may believe in various spirits that may be good, and may declare people saints but it doesn't really mean much.

There are multiple meanings of the term Chaos in the Warhammer world. Chaos is made of magic, magic flows from the realm of chaos which exists upon the sites of the collapsed Warp Gates of the Old Ones. Chaos as a faction isn't necessarily all that magical, normal men and beasts are made of flesh and bone for example. The Beastmen are theorised to have become a thing when Chaos/Magic first came to the world and flowed wildly across it mutating and merging things and creating the species. Beastmen gods are the Chaos gods (though sometimes by different names and forms, the Chaos gods to have loads).

Thus you can have things of Chaos which aren't necessarily born straight from magic but are just the progression of a corruption that has long been in place on the world. Beastmen breed, mostly you find beastmen who were always beastmen and born from beastmen who were always beastmen than something that got turned into a Beastman.

All of what I said may be wrong it is what the Elves think for the most part and they are quite clever about such things.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby LordLucan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:19 pm

Liliedhe wrote:
- What exactly is a living saint and what is an angel in this setting?


I didn't know Whf had them to be hoenst.

- The book gave me the impression that there are two sorts of chaos in this setting, or two flavours, if you will. One that is intrinsic to the world and one that comes from 'the warp' or whatever it is called there. Is this true?


I think so. The winds of magic are essentially the warp energies filtered through the gates and spread across the world, and it causes a lot of the weirder creatures of Whf like chimerae and trolls.

The northern dameonic legions and incursions from the north and via cults are more direct channeling of this energy I think.

[quote[- Are Beastman chaos creatures?[/quote]

"And in that time of chaos, man became beast, and beast became man"

Yes, they very much are creatures of chaos. In fact,t hey are known as the children of the gods, for they are closer tot he chaos gods than human followers. Morghur, one of their shamans, is so infused with chaos magic that he causes thsoe near him to turn into mutated chaos spawn.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:27 pm

Thanks for the answers... Well, Huss has been called a living saint, and he showed 'effects' that I would consider appropriate for a living saint a la 40K (golden aura of power, immunity to magic, impossible resilience). As for the angel, that's more complicated and probably a spoiler.
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:34 pm

Huss is a Warrior Priest he is trained to be able to perform Faith Based magic (though I don't know what he thinks he is doing. Either way strong emotions and thoughts can bend the winds of magic and priests do that sort of thing allot). It sounds like Chris has gone and pushed the background a bit, he likes doing that. Anyway Huss isn't an official saint, he may be called one by simple folk but the Church of Sigmar doesn't like Huss because he thinks the Arch Lectors are corrupt (not in a scary chaos way just in a greedy way).
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Liliedhe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:38 pm

He gets called one by a Witch Hunter, not just by peasants. When the Witch Hunter sees him ... do something suitably saintly (which Huss didn't think he could do before and then it suddenly happened). It's a bit difficult to describe stuff without spoilering too much, but it's probably safe to assume the setting just got pushed, a lot 8-)
"You were a warleader, a fighter, when did you gain such illuminating insight into the minds of others?"
"I learned such things as you and your brothers applied brand to my flesh and parted skin with rasp and knife," snarled Astelan. "When your witches tried to prise open my mind they opened me for an instant and I stared back."
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:39 pm

Huss is a special Warrior Priest, most faithful, his place in the setting is as a warrior priest who can do even more awesome things than the others. Witch Hunters aren't that bright, they're templars of Sigmar who can't do faith based magic like the priests.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:38 am

Saints weren't really mentioned in WHF for ages - even Tome of Salvation used the term "venerated soul" rather than "saint", partly to distinguish it from 40K. The miracle-working priest has been underplayed in WHF generally - in fact it was pretty much only introduced in 6th edition when warrior priests became tabletop characters en masse (although the Grand Theogonist could always cast spells).

According to ToS/RoS, divine magic comes from the same source as arcane magic (no D&D-style malarkey here) but the humans don't realise that. As such, priests who can cast spells (miracles) are treated with a degree of reverence - they must truly be blessed by the Gods - while arcane spellcasters are treated with a degree of suspicion (witch!). Even the sanctioned College wizards aren't popular for the most part - although it does vary a bit - and RoS mentions a specific, top secret, branch of the witch hunters - the Seekers of Truth and Justice - who are funded directly from the office of Johann Esmer (presumably before the coup which ousted him).

I've never really liked the spellcasting warrior priests that appeared on the tabletop and I'm glad that for the most part they've remained rare in the fiction. I'm also not a big fan of the aesthetic, preferring the older Sigmarite priest look:
Image
Image

I know people who love it, though, and in fact prefer the idea of spellcasting warrior priests to collegiate wizards.I don't mind the odd one - like Luthor Huss - but I'd rather they were an exception than a rule.

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