General Whf Lore Q&A

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:38 pm

True Ath saint's are really under played the only one I can think of off hand was mentioned wayyyy back in James Wallis's marks of chaos novels and that was only a throw away mention imo the saint was called Karl the unbowed Karl Hoches name saint who smacked a griffon stupid if memory serves.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:23 pm

I like the use of Prayer magic myself it offers a link to the pre-college days of hedge magic where magic happened and was used by humans without due care, attention or understanding. It also suits my take that whilst Chaos is the stuff of magic, magic isn't the stuff of Chaos. That there is magic that isn't Chaos out there, the only issue is that magic is the fundamental building blocks of Chaos and that humans being human are prone to unintentionally create chaos with magic just because that is where their heads/hearts is at.

I also like the fact that the priests are ignorant to the fact they are using magic and will refute the notion. Mostly because ignorance is always cool but also because they're potentially tapping into a non-Chaos power, or at least attempting to shape magic in a "lawful" way the knowledge threatens to undermine their attempts to do so. If they think they're working magic then it won't be as effective as if they think they're channelling Sigmar and performing actual proper miracles (allot of magic work being about faith and confidence, momentary doubts causing miscasts).
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Rob P » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:35 pm

What's the deal with the gods of the Tomb Kings? Are they of chaos or different?

And, is the Tomb King undeath significantly different from that of the re-animation of the necromancers?

And was there something in the lore, some time ago, but not that long ago, that indicated that the original spells or what not in the Tomb King empire were intended to do away with the effects of the winds of magic - or have I made that up?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Maugan Ra » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Most I can remember off the top of my head is that the Tomb Kings are pretty much all Nagash's fault. That dude screwed up a lot of things, really...

But yeah, he cast some really major ritual that turned Nehekhara into the Lands of the Dead. Poisoned the rivers, ruined the earth, and naturally resurrected all the buried kings and their legions. It seems to differ from standard Necromantic unlife in two ways:
1) The undead still appear to maintain their memories and personalities
2) They aren't under the control of the necromancer.

Now, the first one can probably be put down to it being Nagash who cast the spell. Hideous monster and abomination against life, true, but the man knew his magic. As for the second one, that can hilariously enough be attributed to the Skaven. They snuck the Fellblade in to Alcaddizzar and pointed him at Nagash while he was still drained from the ritual, thus banishing him for a millenia or so. It seems safe to assume that Nagash didn't intend for the Tomb Kings to remain autonomous... he just got interuppted before he could seize control.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:05 am

It's partly to do with the old magic of the Liche Priests, too. Whole armies were entombed along with their masters intending to serve them in death and either Nagash "activated" them with his spell or the Liche Priests have found a way to break whatever enchantment Nagash placed on them. We don't know whether Nagash was expecting the Tomb Kings to be sentient when he resurrected them, or whether he could ever have controlled them in the way he was planning (he probably could at the height of his power) but he never got the chance, and by the time he returned the TKs were well established and threw him out rather unceremoniously.

The bulk of Tomb Kings troops (the skeletons) are old Nehekharan army soldiers who fight in their old formations alongside their old comrades for their old kings (the kings themselves are pretty much fully sentient, although pretty insane). On the other hand, most of the skeleton and zombie troops employed by necromancers and vampires are random bodies that they've found/stolen and thrown into battle.

The old gods of Nehekhara - well, it's not clear how or whether they relate to the other gods of the setting. You could probably find some parallels between the Nehekharan gods and the elven/human pantheon if you spent the time. Which I never have for some reason. Let's rectify that now... In fact I think I'm going to need a new thread for that. Watch this space.

Edit: Stop watching this space and go here instead.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:53 am

All right I give were's the space marine game thread gone, through 6 pages of topics and not seen it or is it just a case of me not seeing it? looking for a few people to join me on my ps3 asking here as didn't want to create a duplicate thread.
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby shadowhawk2008 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:05 am

sam vimes wrote:All right I give were's the space marine game thread gone, through 6 pages of topics and not seen it or is it just a case of me not seeing it? looking for a few people to join me on my ps3 asking here as didn't want to create a duplicate thread.


You are looking in the wrong thread.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby sam vimes » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:52 pm

well could you should point me towards it then please and oops posted in fantasy not 40k teach me to stay off the net after 8hr shifts
"Huron-Fal’s systems were on the verge of shutdown ... ‘This death,’ rasped the voder, ‘this death is ours. We choose it. We deny you your victory.’

"Abandon your fear. Look forward. Move forward and never stop. You'll age if you pull back. You'll die if you hesitate."

"From iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron." "And may it ever be so"
[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Jelboy » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:55 am

In 40k the Imperium can survive against huge hordes of Orks because of superior space marines, huge IG numbers, some fairly good tech etc.

How does the Empire in Warhammer survive large ork invasions? I imagine the troop number differential is not so good without untold Imperial Guard to rely on, the Empire may have knights but surely they are not in the same class as the Space Marines? And surely the tech difference between Empire and orks is not so profound as the tech difference between the Imperium and Ork empires?

Are the orks in warhammer fundamentally weaker than in 40k? Or do they not congregate in wargghs?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Lord of the Night » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:28 pm

Jelboy wrote:In 40k the Imperium can survive against huge hordes of Orks because of superior space marines, huge IG numbers, some fairly good tech etc.

How does the Empire in Warhammer survive large ork invasions? I imagine the troop number differential is not so good without untold Imperial Guard to rely on, the Empire may have knights but surely they are not in the same class as the Space Marines? And surely the tech difference between Empire and orks is not so profound as the tech difference between the Imperium and Ork empires?

Are the orks in warhammer fundamentally weaker than in 40k? Or do they not congregate in wargghs?

Well the key thing is numbers. No Orc could amass something like WAAAGH! Ghazghkull, there aren't that many Orcs in the world. And of course the Orcs technology is very primitive compared to the Empire, they have no guns and rely on their brute strength against the Empire's rugged endurance, whereas the Empire has steam tanks, magic and gunpowder!

And the Empire can call on allies like Tilea, Bretonnia, the Dwarfs, and the Elves at times, whereas the Orcs can only call on beings as untrustworthy as them like Chaos and they will inevitably turn on each other.

That said the Orcs can still do a lot of damage. They just have more options when to fight. In 40k eight times out of ten you wind up fighting the Imperium since its everywhere, but the Empire is actually quite small compared to the rest of the world.


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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:15 pm

The technology differential between the Empire and the Orcs is much bigger than that between the Imperium and the 40K Orcs. Orc weapon and armour technology is extremely primitive, while the Empire is on the verge of the industrial revolution. The technology of the Orks in 40K is actually really advanced, it' just looks like junk.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby davij038 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:01 pm

Also war hammer orcs don't spore and seem to find it hard to unite but when they do such as with gorbad and grom then things get really bad...
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:22 am

The sporing is... controversial. Certainly I don't like the idea that Warhammer orcs reproduce in exactly the same way as 40K ones - I just don't think it works in the setting, but it seems that WHF orcs and goblins (presumably hobgoblins too) do reproduce with spores.

Really big orc invasions into the Empire are pretty infrequent. The Empire has a fairly substantial ring of defences and buffer states to see them off. The big Waaaghs that we know about and are worth mentioning are Bloodfang in -1 IC (defeated by Sigmar); Gorbad in 1707-12 (got bored and went home); Grom in 2424 (headed to the coast and took ship for Ulthuan); Morglum Necksnapper in 2506 (defeated by Kurt Helborg and later by Karl Franz)*, Azhag in 2515 (defeated by the Knights Panther) and Vorgaz Ironjaw in 2520 (defeated by Karl Franz). Note the abundance of recent invasions. Note also that Grimgor Ironhide has yet to lead a campaign of significance in the Empire that I'm aware of.

Morglum's invasion may no longer be canonical, but I hope it is.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Jim Shady » Mon May 07, 2012 3:56 am

Liliedhe wrote:What exactly is a living saint and what is an angel in this setting?


I'll say 'yes' to this. Somewhere in the lore (Unsure if this was on the net or in a codex/WD), it's stated that Magnus the Pious was due to be canonised or in the process of becoming a saint etc.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby David Earle » Fri May 11, 2012 12:53 am

I thought I knew this, but now I'm not sure...

Is there anyone in the modern Warhammer world stupid enough to actually want to take up the Sword of Khaine?
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Maugan Ra » Fri May 11, 2012 11:55 am

David Earle wrote:I thought I knew this, but now I'm not sure...

Is there anyone in the modern Warhammer world stupid enough to actually want to take up the Sword of Khaine?


One would imagine any number of his followers would be pretty eager to jump at the chance. Malekith turned it down, sure, but there are plenty of devout Khainites who would happily pick it up and start killing. Similarily, I imagine followers of Khorne would also be fairly cool with the idea - wielding an apocolyptic sword of the god of Murder seems right up their street.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby schaferwhat‽ » Fri May 11, 2012 12:19 pm

David Earle wrote:I thought I knew this, but now I'm not sure...

Is there anyone in the modern Warhammer world stupid enough to actually want to take up the Sword of Khaine?


Lots of Elves will consider it, they're crazy those Elves, they'll think better of it though typically.

The Khainites won't just go for it because as a holy relic one needs to be worthy of the blade.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Sat May 12, 2012 1:35 am

The Sword may only make itself "available" to those worthy of wielding it. I suspect it's also reasonably heavily guarded when the Blighted Isle is in High Elf possession. There is of course the suggestion that Tethlis tried to draw it and was killed by his own bodyguards. There probably are elves mad enough to try to wield it, but I suspect that sufficient motive and opportunity don't often, if ever, overlap.

That is unless, of course, you listen to Mike Lee, who would have us believe that the "Warpsword" that Malus uses as a toothpick in the Darkblade series is the actual Sword of Khaine. Personally, I don't buy it (I don't think anyone else does either). See my new thread for unverifiable speculation on the true nature of the Warpsword.

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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Jim Shady » Sat May 12, 2012 11:40 pm

Taken from the WHF Wiki page at Lexicanum. Not sure how long ago this was written but non the less;

The sword appears to take on different forms to the personal preferences to the viewer, for example it was a sword for Aenarion the Defender, a sceptre for Malekith, and a lance for Caledor the Conqueror.
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Re: General Whf Lore Q&A

Postby Athelassan » Sun May 13, 2012 1:53 am

There was a WD story about Tyrion from years ago (I do have the issue, but I can't give you the number, because I don't have it with me - I suspect about 2001-ish) from which I think this was taken, and then elaborated upon by further authors. Tyrion recaptured the Blighted Isle from N'Kari and approached the Sword of Khaine, although he turned down its entreaties for him to withdraw it. He noted that it appeared as a sword to him, as it had to Aenarion, and a lance to Caledor. He also mentally acknowledged that nobody knew what Tethlis saw. Malekith saw a mace/sceptre when he was tempted to draw it in Malekith.

I'm intrigued to know what Tethlis saw. "Genocidal bioweapon" doesn't really have an easy Old World analogue.

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